I did read the rest of the thread, and I agree with your summary of the respondants :)
I have to say, though, "t's called male privilege" just seems like a polite way of writing "either you agree with me, or you're wrong". There's no question in my mind that some individuals and some segments of society do look upon and treat women in the manner you describe. I also readily agree that I can not get a fiirst-hand appreciation of the extent of the problem. However, it seems a bit rich to suggest that I'm being wholly naive in believing that some quantity of men do in fact view women as respected equals. Their number might well be lower than I like to believe, but I'm willing to hear that.
Asserting that no man can determine - without female input - what constitutes chauvinistic behaviour walks us to another extreme, wherein men are prevented by being good by their very nature, and must subjugate their judgement to women if they want to be good. Or doesn't it? I'm genuinely having trouble finding the happy medium in this debate.
I consider this to be irresponsible wishful thinking. It's like believing AIDS isn't a problem in Africa, because you're not in Africa and therefore can't see it.
That's just being crass - if you care to re-read my comment, you'll note that rather than advocating a "heads in the sand" approach, I think that the people with the right ideas should be moving everyone else in the right direction. If you feel that that is wrong and/or ineffectual, I would love to hear more as to why...
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ninetydegrees
no subject
on 2006-04-30 10:35 pm (UTC)I have to say, though, "t's called male privilege" just seems like a polite way of writing "either you agree with me, or you're wrong". There's no question in my mind that some individuals and some segments of society do look upon and treat women in the manner you describe. I also readily agree that I can not get a fiirst-hand appreciation of the extent of the problem. However, it seems a bit rich to suggest that I'm being wholly naive in believing that some quantity of men do in fact view women as respected equals. Their number might well be lower than I like to believe, but I'm willing to hear that.
Asserting that no man can determine - without female input - what constitutes chauvinistic behaviour walks us to another extreme, wherein men are prevented by being good by their very nature, and must subjugate their judgement to women if they want to be good. Or doesn't it? I'm genuinely having trouble finding the happy medium in this debate.
That's just being crass - if you care to re-read my comment, you'll note that rather than advocating a "heads in the sand" approach, I think that the people with the right ideas should be moving everyone else in the right direction. If you feel that that is wrong and/or ineffectual, I would love to hear more as to why...