on checking privilege

[helenic]

LJ has had some great writing lately on confronting one's own privilege, particularly in the context of conversation or debate. Here's two that I've bookmarked:

Don't be That Guy by synecdochic, writing in the aftermath of the Open Source Boob Project
Being an ally part 1: listening to anger by sophiaserpentia

The comments on the latter are particularly worthwhile. This, by sammaelhain struck me as summing it all up pretty well:

"If it's more important for me as a white hetero male to assert how i'm not "like that" than it is for me to shut the fuck up and consider the perspective of someone other than me, then functionally I'd rather have my privilege than work for a more fair society.

This doesn't mean you don't get an opinion if you're part of an oppressive social caste, it just means that you have to take things into consideration that are bigger and more important than your personal comfort when you address them."

The first sentence can be applied to any of us. My version would be, I guess, "If it's more important for me as a white, middle-class, able-bodied, straight-seeming bisexual female to assert how i'm not "like that" than it is for me to shut the fuck up and consider the perspective of someone other than me, then functionally I'd rather have my privilege than work for a more fair society."

I think I might write that out on a post-it note and stick it above my computer. I can think of lots of people I would want to see confront that. Which means, of course, I should start with myself. Easier said than done, but here's to trying.

Comments

[jacinthsong.livejournal.com]

Ooo, thanks for the second link, I hadn't seen that one :)It occurs to me I should do a post like this as nobody reads del.icio.us...

[forthwritten.livejournal.com]

I suppose this is an issue I'm still grappling with. As a British-Asian, queer, female it would be easy to play a lot of cards. If my sight wasn't corrected by glasses I would be counted as partially sighted and I still remember the utter frustration of being called slow just because my body didn't work as I wanted it to.

However, focusing on the ways in which I am a minority doesn't ask me to interrogate how I am privileged - I am privileged in terms of the class I present as, even if I feel I'm outside class. I am Asian, so people usually assume I'm intelligent, motivated and diligent rather than a troublemaker. My ethnicity has actually helped me find work - the team I work in now is made up of a Mexican, a Greek and an American. I was raised Catholic, which has its own set of discriminations which I experience differently than if I was Hindu or Sikh.
Of course there are things I find unfair, but I've received much more hassle from my delayed bone growth and poor eyesight than I ever have for my colour.

Of course it's important to assess whether protesting "I'm not like that!" is helpful, but I should be assessing this too. It's not helpful for me to not listen to people who've had very different experiences from me, even if we have similar backgrounds.

[sammhain.livejournal.com]

Speaking only for myself I feel that the most effective way to demonstrate "I'm not like that" is to not act like that, and being a white male part of that for me, that includes accepting it is not always for me to be dominating, dictating, or driving a discussion or a debate.

I think the last bit really hits the nail on the head, the willingness to listen and listen fully rather than plotting what we want to say next while others speak.

[load-of-flannel.livejournal.com]

Having seen several people (Male and Female) slapped down by Neo feminnist wannabe LJ users for attempting to actually debate this Id say no. Its not been well debated. Ive seen some good writing. Mostly the commentary is full of peopole who couldn't deebate anything if they wanted.

As a result all that sentence means is.

"If I think my view is germane to this debate, it isn't, trying to express it is tantamount to denying my opponents point in its entirity and therefore means I am supporting inequality in society"

Which is in my humble opinion clearly bollocks.

[sammhain.livejournal.com]

Interesting interpretation. I'd point out however, that there is a difference between a forum where an issue is being debated, and a forum where grievances are being aired. In the case of the former your comments may or may not be germane, may or may not be rife with unchecked privilege. In the case of the latter any attempt to turn the situation into something that is about you, about your opinion, is a case of unchecked privilege and does indeed support and contribute to a society which is full of inequity.

Your base assumption here seems to be that your opinion and your right to it it, is at all times, more important than anything else. Which is of course exactly the attitude I was describing.

[sammhain.livejournal.com]

I think it's alo important to keep in mind that what I'm advocating that certain goals come befoure ourselves as individuals, even if you have something to say that is worthwhile it doesn't necessarily need to be said right then and in that venue.

I realize the idea of the needs of a community trumping individualism is a skeevy topic to most westeners, but I think if you explore it honestly instead of rushing to decry it bollocks you might the idea has merit and in the long term shores up individuality more than an add-esque me first attitude does.

[load-of-flannel.livejournal.com]

Its fairly difficult to reply to that without full context but....

I do not rush to decry it, I am merely aware that the comment (which at face value has a lot of 'rightness') Is generally used as far as I can see by those pushing the agenda of privilige to ignore any counterpoint argument. Any attempt to discuss that view rather than actally agree with it has generally been attacked. I find this equally rude, discriminatory and tending toward inequality.

At no point have persons suggested that their opinion is more germane than that put forward by others however I have repeatedly seen those views trampled by hordes of posters all very eager to call the person a masoginist or similar without actually considering what they were saying.

It is not correct (IMHO) that people should air their opinions without those opinions being open to question. Nor is it correct that theyy respond by attacking the person rather than the argument they raised.

The rush to decry is mainly from those who are attempting to push the privilige issue but who have not actually thought it through and are merely band-wagon jumpers who havent actually got a clue what it is they are angry about. Its rarwely those who thought and wrote sensibly about it in the first place.

Because a group have self identified as belonging to a lower social caste does not mean that anyone they have identified (with little more than an stereotype of their sex) as a higher social caste should tread carefully around them, nor do the lower group automatically gain the right to attack that person on the basis that they cannot empathise with them the underpriviliged.

That argues that everyone should automatically accept the existence of privilige as they state as an Axiom of any discussion whereas the existence of the privilige to the level they state is actually the area of discussion.

In the quote used here...

"If it's more important for me as a white hetero male to assert how i'm not "like that..."

That is only ever assessable by the person disagreeing with the presented notion of privilige. Only they can define whether they are a White hetero male and what is more important to them.

What actually happens (mostly not always)is that other persons decide unilaterally that they ARE a white hetero poster and it IS more important to them and then attack them on that basis. This is a dirert attack based not on notions of privilige or indeed the discussion but by a sexist assumption by the side of the argument demanding that the other side awknowledge their privilige.



There are two sides to every coin. Just because some groups are priviliged in one way does not mean that others are not differntly priviliged.


I have no idea if that makes sense.... hope so....

[karrli69.livejournal.com]

If you really need it

[robert-jones.livejournal.com]

Perhaps I'm hopelessly naive, but could not the words "as a white hetero male" have been safely and profitably omitted from that quotation. It's all about, AIUI, listening to the other person's view, empathising with their anger and acknowledging their grievances. None of those things require any comment on the listener's privilege.

It may well be the case (I suspect it is) that people from privileged groups generally have less experience of listening and are therefore less good at it, and so in a way it is a particularly important lesson for those people to learn, but it is still a lesson which is equally applicable to everybody. By expressing it in that loaded way, I suspect that sammaelhain makes it harder for the privileged to hear him.

Roughly the same comment applies, mutatis mutandis to many of the comments in the linked posts.

[load-of-flannel.livejournal.com]

I think I agree.

The comment if it had its rampant white male hating stereotype removed is actually a fiar and just comment with many good things to commend it.

With the addition of the white male hating its just another excuse for one side to refuse to listen to the other and to expect that their statenments should not even be questioned.

[radegund.livejournal.com]

Hi, I followed a link from yiskah's journal and arrived here. Great links! I need such a post-it note too. I've added you to my friends-list - hope that's OK.